1 00:00:14,723 --> 00:00:16,725 [♪ "What More Can I Say" by Jay-Z playing] 2 00:00:36,578 --> 00:00:37,995 ♪ Fuck this, man ♪ 3 00:00:37,996 --> 00:00:42,166 - [both laughing] - ♪ What more can I say? ♪ 4 00:00:42,167 --> 00:00:44,835 So, a lot of times in those days, we would-- 5 00:00:44,836 --> 00:00:46,504 when I first was recording, 6 00:00:46,505 --> 00:00:49,173 we had a thing called free play where I would just go in. 7 00:00:49,174 --> 00:00:52,677 I had so many lyrics and so many songs in my head 8 00:00:52,678 --> 00:00:54,762 that I would flush through them. 9 00:00:54,763 --> 00:00:56,180 - You have one track. - Yeah. 10 00:00:56,181 --> 00:00:57,890 And then I'll just say a bunch of things on it 11 00:00:57,891 --> 00:01:01,352 and be like, "Oh, this song actually works over this." 12 00:01:01,353 --> 00:01:03,521 And everybody would rush to the studio 13 00:01:03,522 --> 00:01:06,899 'cause it's like, they hadn't heard these-- these songs. 14 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:09,694 So like, Biggs, and Dame, and all them would run in the studio 15 00:01:09,695 --> 00:01:11,862 and be like, "Yo, free play is happening." 16 00:01:11,863 --> 00:01:13,614 And then, like, I'd just go in the booth 17 00:01:13,615 --> 00:01:16,367 and I would just go through it, and the beat always stopped 18 00:01:16,368 --> 00:01:17,660 - at some point. - Yeah. 19 00:01:17,661 --> 00:01:19,203 - And I always just kept-- - But you keep going. 20 00:01:19,204 --> 00:01:21,539 - So, that inspired this idea. - That's great. 21 00:01:21,540 --> 00:01:23,249 This wasn't a real time it happened. 22 00:01:23,250 --> 00:01:25,126 That inspired the idea to do that. 23 00:01:25,127 --> 00:01:26,628 - Yeah. - And, um... 24 00:01:27,546 --> 00:01:30,047 so The Black Album, there was so-- 25 00:01:30,048 --> 00:01:31,883 I mean, like, obvious misses. 26 00:01:32,593 --> 00:01:34,927 Encore was supposed to be the first single. 27 00:01:34,928 --> 00:01:36,387 - [laughing] - Now, I don't know 28 00:01:36,388 --> 00:01:39,140 how I missed Encore not being the first single. 29 00:01:39,141 --> 00:01:41,058 - Yeah. - And how is this not the last song 30 00:01:41,059 --> 00:01:42,393 - on the album? - Yeah. 31 00:01:42,394 --> 00:01:45,104 It's the last album, not Change Clothes. 32 00:01:45,105 --> 00:01:46,564 Change Clothes was the first single. 33 00:01:46,565 --> 00:01:49,066 This should have been, "Encore, do you want more?" 34 00:01:49,067 --> 00:01:51,277 I almost went to radio with Encore, 35 00:01:51,278 --> 00:01:53,571 and I remember Kevin Liles saying like, 36 00:01:53,572 --> 00:01:55,781 "Man, the album's incredible. I can't believe it. 37 00:01:55,782 --> 00:01:58,409 "Like, the Encore one is the only one 38 00:01:58,410 --> 00:01:59,994 that I'm on the fence about." 39 00:01:59,995 --> 00:02:03,247 And I typically never listen to that, you know. 40 00:02:03,248 --> 00:02:05,249 - Um, but I trust him as well. - Yeah, yeah. 41 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:07,084 Then the room was too, like Guru, 42 00:02:07,085 --> 00:02:08,586 which he's always with me. 43 00:02:08,587 --> 00:02:11,130 - Yeah. - He wasn't all the way with Encore. 44 00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:12,840 It was like, it was enough people in the room 45 00:02:12,841 --> 00:02:14,467 that wasn't all the way with Encore... 46 00:02:14,468 --> 00:02:16,427 - Mm-hmm. - ...that it didn't happen. 47 00:02:16,428 --> 00:02:18,387 I was sending that song to, like, Flex. 48 00:02:18,388 --> 00:02:20,890 - He's like the local DJ at my Hot97. - Yeah, yeah. 49 00:02:20,891 --> 00:02:24,018 And I had PSA on one CD and Encore on another one, 50 00:02:24,019 --> 00:02:26,562 and I was gonna send him those two to play. 51 00:02:26,563 --> 00:02:29,106 And I took the Encore back and just gave him PSA. 52 00:02:29,107 --> 00:02:30,691 [Rick Rubin] Mm. 53 00:02:30,692 --> 00:02:33,277 And that's how Change Clothes ended up being the first single. 54 00:02:33,278 --> 00:02:36,530 Yeah, that idea of what's a single, what's not a single. 55 00:02:36,531 --> 00:02:38,199 Nobody really knows. 56 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,201 And all you can really do is follow your gut... 57 00:02:40,202 --> 00:02:41,952 - Yeah. - ...'cause that's all you-- that's all there is. 58 00:02:41,953 --> 00:02:45,581 I liked that streaming kinda like eliminated that. 59 00:02:45,582 --> 00:02:47,958 Obviously, people can do what they want and still make singles, 60 00:02:47,959 --> 00:02:50,544 but it's not necessary, 'cause streaming, 61 00:02:50,545 --> 00:02:51,879 people are just gonna pick the singles. 62 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,298 - Absolutely. - It's not dictated by radio 63 00:02:54,299 --> 00:02:56,175 or what video you shoot. 64 00:02:56,176 --> 00:02:57,677 You know, it's always been like that, 65 00:02:57,678 --> 00:03:00,179 but because you was so-- had a focus track... 66 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:03,225 - Yeah. - ...you-- even when people liked this other song... 67 00:03:04,226 --> 00:03:07,812 the masses didn't embrace it until you... 68 00:03:07,813 --> 00:03:11,065 presented it in-- as a single or as a focus track. 69 00:03:11,066 --> 00:03:13,359 But now, with streaming, people just take the songs 70 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,487 and, like, you know, a song that... 71 00:03:16,571 --> 00:03:18,155 you know, with no hook or something like that, 72 00:03:18,156 --> 00:03:21,283 ends up being number one on the Hot 100, 73 00:03:21,284 --> 00:03:23,869 - simply because people played it a lot because they like it. - Yeah, people like it. 74 00:03:23,870 --> 00:03:25,329 - I love that part of streaming. - Yeah. 75 00:03:25,330 --> 00:03:26,997 I love that it-- you know. 76 00:03:26,998 --> 00:03:29,710 And it also unveiled how popular rap was. 77 00:03:30,752 --> 00:03:33,504 Like, we knew that this was the dominant genre 78 00:03:33,505 --> 00:03:36,841 - for 20 years now, 25 years. - Mm-hmm. 79 00:03:36,842 --> 00:03:39,094 But the world didn't know because the gatekeepers at... 80 00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:43,347 you know, big stations, Z100 or MTV, 81 00:03:43,348 --> 00:03:45,850 they really controlled what was being played. 82 00:03:45,851 --> 00:03:49,687 Almost like when MTV didn't play, like, Black music. 83 00:03:49,688 --> 00:03:52,273 - Mm-hmm. - And, like, I remember David Bowie being on there like, 84 00:03:52,274 --> 00:03:54,608 - "What the fuck are y'all doing?" - Mm-hmm, yeah. 85 00:03:54,609 --> 00:03:57,278 We knew Michael Jackson and all that was popular, 86 00:03:57,279 --> 00:04:00,531 but because it wasn't getting played on these platforms, 87 00:04:00,532 --> 00:04:02,116 - the world didn't know. - Mm-hmm. 88 00:04:02,117 --> 00:04:07,121 And I felt like streaming opened that up for, um, for hip-hop. 89 00:04:07,122 --> 00:04:09,999 It was like the last thing. It was like, okay, it's over. 90 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,543 - Now, the cat's really out the bag. - Yeah. 91 00:04:12,544 --> 00:04:14,628 I feel like now, even though hip-hop 92 00:04:14,629 --> 00:04:16,298 is as popular as it is... 93 00:04:17,591 --> 00:04:20,551 there's still a lack of understanding about it. 94 00:04:20,552 --> 00:04:22,136 - I agree. - I don't know 95 00:04:22,137 --> 00:04:24,722 that people know how to really listen to hip-hop. 96 00:04:24,723 --> 00:04:27,558 - Yeah. - It's so dense with information. 97 00:04:27,559 --> 00:04:29,351 - Mm-hmm. - And a lot of people 98 00:04:29,352 --> 00:04:31,437 - just kinda hear this-- the hook in the beat. - They hear the music. 99 00:04:31,438 --> 00:04:34,106 Whatever melodic thing catches you in the beat. 100 00:04:34,107 --> 00:04:36,776 - Yeah. - Yeah, and the lyrics are last. 101 00:04:36,777 --> 00:04:39,904 When you started performing, did you always perform with a DJ? 102 00:04:39,905 --> 00:04:41,447 - Yeah. - When did it switch 103 00:04:41,448 --> 00:04:42,907 from a DJ to a band? 104 00:04:42,908 --> 00:04:44,241 Unplugged. 105 00:04:44,242 --> 00:04:45,534 - And from then on. - Yeah. 106 00:04:45,535 --> 00:04:47,620 I never performed without a band after that. 107 00:04:47,621 --> 00:04:49,663 - Tell me the change. - It brought the songs to life. 108 00:04:49,664 --> 00:04:51,248 - It was so lush-- - The power of the band on stage. 109 00:04:51,249 --> 00:04:52,583 Yeah, the instrumentation. 110 00:04:52,584 --> 00:04:54,585 And, you know, I-- I typically choose 111 00:04:54,586 --> 00:04:56,587 musical tracks, even from the beginning. 112 00:04:56,588 --> 00:04:59,507 It wasn't typical to choose the tracks I was choosing, 113 00:04:59,508 --> 00:05:01,759 but I chose them because this is the music 114 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,594 I grew up on with my mom. 115 00:05:03,595 --> 00:05:05,179 - Yeah. - This is the music 116 00:05:05,180 --> 00:05:07,807 that was amazing to me and beautiful to me. 117 00:05:07,808 --> 00:05:09,433 I've always chosen, like-- 118 00:05:09,434 --> 00:05:12,144 the B.I.G.-- the Brooklyn's Finest song, 119 00:05:12,145 --> 00:05:14,772 is just-- I used to ride around with that 120 00:05:14,773 --> 00:05:17,024 in my car all the time, Ohio Player. 121 00:05:17,025 --> 00:05:19,485 ♪ Oh, baby, no-o-o ♪ 122 00:05:19,486 --> 00:05:21,946 That original song is called Ecstasy. 123 00:05:21,947 --> 00:05:23,614 And I would play that all the time. 124 00:05:23,615 --> 00:05:25,491 And Dame was in the car with me. 125 00:05:25,492 --> 00:05:28,118 He was like, "This guy is playing this song all the time." 126 00:05:28,119 --> 00:05:30,955 Takes it to Clark and says, "Yo, chop this up. 127 00:05:30,956 --> 00:05:32,165 - He likes this." - Yeah. 128 00:05:32,874 --> 00:05:34,876 [♪ "Brooklyn's Finest" feat. The Notorious B.I.G. playing] 129 00:06:27,512 --> 00:06:29,847 [Jay-Z] This song had a five-bar loop. 130 00:06:29,848 --> 00:06:31,515 He couldn't get it back on the one, 131 00:06:31,516 --> 00:06:33,684 so we had to throw away a bar. 132 00:06:33,685 --> 00:06:34,894 So when he goes, 133 00:06:34,895 --> 00:06:36,353 "Time to separate the pros from the cons..." 134 00:06:36,354 --> 00:06:37,771 [mumbling indistinctly] 135 00:06:37,772 --> 00:06:39,523 "...the butter-soft shit from the leather on the Fonz..." 136 00:06:39,524 --> 00:06:41,526 [continues mumbling indistinctly] 137 00:06:43,528 --> 00:06:45,696 "Brook-Nam, sipping on." 138 00:06:45,697 --> 00:06:49,116 We had to throw that away so he could get back on the one. 139 00:06:49,117 --> 00:06:52,202 So, we always had like an extra bar, 140 00:06:52,203 --> 00:06:53,746 and we had these connectors. 141 00:06:53,747 --> 00:06:55,915 And I wrote the connectors for B.I.G., 142 00:06:55,916 --> 00:06:57,708 'cause B.I.G. didn't do his verse that night. 143 00:06:57,709 --> 00:06:59,710 So, when it goes, "What's your name? 144 00:06:59,711 --> 00:07:02,254 Who shot you?", that was me. 145 00:07:02,255 --> 00:07:04,423 I was like, "What's your name? Who shot you?", 146 00:07:04,424 --> 00:07:06,216 - so he can know... - When to come in. 147 00:07:06,217 --> 00:07:07,885 Yeah, because we would be offbeat. 148 00:07:07,886 --> 00:07:09,887 - Yeah. - And if we didn't have those things. 149 00:07:09,888 --> 00:07:12,181 So, it was a problem-solve, 150 00:07:12,182 --> 00:07:13,725 that it was the first time I had to... 151 00:07:14,726 --> 00:07:18,062 as far as like, uh, creating song structure, 152 00:07:18,063 --> 00:07:19,730 'cause I was rapping. Like I told you, this-- 153 00:07:19,731 --> 00:07:21,231 - Yeah. - This album, I was pretty much rapping. 154 00:07:21,232 --> 00:07:23,400 There's no real hooks. Like, Mary did a hook. 155 00:07:23,401 --> 00:07:25,819 - Mm-hmm. - Mecca did another hook. 156 00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:28,238 Can I Live is just me saying, "Can I live?" 157 00:07:28,239 --> 00:07:32,242 You know, it was no-- no-- no songwriting 158 00:07:32,243 --> 00:07:34,662 in-- in terms of, like, you know, 159 00:07:34,663 --> 00:07:36,580 creating a-- a complete song. 160 00:07:36,581 --> 00:07:38,916 Even on this, I left-- we left the studio. 161 00:07:38,917 --> 00:07:42,086 Me and B.I.G. was like, "Clark, figure it out. 162 00:07:42,087 --> 00:07:43,754 You know, we're done." And that's why Clark 163 00:07:43,755 --> 00:07:45,589 - is rapping on this hook. - How long before this 164 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:47,967 did you meet B.I.G.? 165 00:07:47,968 --> 00:07:51,679 I met him, but this night was when we clicked. 166 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,472 We left this-- this session 167 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:56,101 and went to see, like, uh, Kings of Comedy. 168 00:07:57,102 --> 00:07:59,853 And there was like a-- you know, whole lineup, 169 00:07:59,854 --> 00:08:03,108 Steve Harvey, Cedric the Entertainer. 170 00:08:04,150 --> 00:08:07,904 There was two more other guys. I forget who was on there. 171 00:08:08,780 --> 00:08:12,533 Anyway, the Kings of Comedy, and we-- we never-- 172 00:08:12,534 --> 00:08:16,161 we talked every day until he was-- till he passed. 173 00:08:16,162 --> 00:08:18,789 And every Friday or Saturday, we would go eat together, 174 00:08:18,790 --> 00:08:20,791 and it was like, you know, it was just like a-- 175 00:08:20,792 --> 00:08:23,419 a fast, you know, relationship. 176 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:25,129 It's strange that, you know, this was the record 177 00:08:25,130 --> 00:08:29,466 that made Tupac and I have a little bit of problem, 178 00:08:29,467 --> 00:08:30,509 just 'cause him and B.I.G., 179 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:32,511 and I was next to B.I.G. and thing. 180 00:08:32,512 --> 00:08:34,596 But on this song where he ends it, 181 00:08:34,597 --> 00:08:37,224 "I'm warning ya," the next thing he said, 182 00:08:37,225 --> 00:08:41,186 "I'm warning ya," was, "most hated in California." 183 00:08:41,187 --> 00:08:42,896 I was like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. 184 00:08:42,897 --> 00:08:45,357 We taking that out. I don't wanna be a part of that. 185 00:08:45,358 --> 00:08:47,943 But if you listen to the song, it ends weird, 186 00:08:47,944 --> 00:08:50,195 'cause he goes, "I'm warning ya," And then the beat goes... 187 00:08:50,196 --> 00:08:51,321 [vocalizing] 188 00:08:51,322 --> 00:08:52,698 It's space. 189 00:08:52,699 --> 00:08:54,491 'Cause he's like, most-- "I'm warning ya, 190 00:08:54,492 --> 00:08:57,036 most hated in California." Yeah. 191 00:08:57,037 --> 00:08:58,495 Tell me from your perspective 192 00:08:58,496 --> 00:09:01,373 that East Coast, West Coast beef. 193 00:09:01,374 --> 00:09:02,916 - Yeah. - When did it become apparent, 194 00:09:02,917 --> 00:09:04,543 and what was the feeling? 195 00:09:04,544 --> 00:09:08,172 These two guys were having their disagreement, 196 00:09:08,173 --> 00:09:11,341 and then an entire coast jumped in. 197 00:09:11,342 --> 00:09:13,886 It felt like, you know, it was super dangerous, it felt like-- 198 00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:15,554 Were-- were they not fans of each other? 199 00:09:15,555 --> 00:09:18,223 - They were really close friends. - It seems like, right? 200 00:09:18,224 --> 00:09:20,017 - No, they were really close friends. - Explain it to me. 201 00:09:20,018 --> 00:09:22,103 - They were close. - I don't-- that's why I don't understand it. 202 00:09:23,104 --> 00:09:25,439 Here's my understanding of it, right? 203 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,107 - Yeah. - 'Cause this predates me, 204 00:09:27,108 --> 00:09:28,359 the-- their relationship. 205 00:09:29,235 --> 00:09:30,236 Is... 206 00:09:31,696 --> 00:09:33,198 Biggie and Tupac used to hang out. 207 00:09:34,199 --> 00:09:36,575 Tupac is getting really popular now. 208 00:09:36,576 --> 00:09:38,243 He-- he was gone. He's blowing up. 209 00:09:38,244 --> 00:09:39,995 - He's shooting movies and all that. - Right. 210 00:09:39,996 --> 00:09:42,123 And now, a certain element is coming around him. 211 00:09:43,083 --> 00:09:45,751 And B.I.G. tells Tupac, 212 00:09:45,752 --> 00:09:48,962 "Yo, you gotta watch those guys. I know those guys. 213 00:09:48,963 --> 00:09:51,256 They're not good guys," bah, bah, bah. 214 00:09:51,257 --> 00:09:54,885 Tupac goes and tells the guys. 215 00:09:54,886 --> 00:09:57,429 So now, they-- the guys are mad at Biggie, 216 00:09:57,430 --> 00:10:00,390 and Biggie's, you know, moving around clubs 217 00:10:00,391 --> 00:10:02,267 and he don't wanna go-- I didn't know this at the time. 218 00:10:02,268 --> 00:10:03,894 One time, we pulled up at the club 219 00:10:03,895 --> 00:10:05,854 and there was a guy outside, and he was like, 220 00:10:05,855 --> 00:10:08,065 "I ain't going in 'cause what-you-call-him's there." 221 00:10:08,066 --> 00:10:10,984 And I'm like, "What?" 222 00:10:10,985 --> 00:10:12,986 Me and Tata was in the car. We going in. 223 00:10:12,987 --> 00:10:15,030 - Yeah. - Now, it makes sense to me 224 00:10:15,031 --> 00:10:17,407 why he didn't go in, because he had problems 225 00:10:17,408 --> 00:10:20,994 with these guys who were really serious guys in the city, 226 00:10:20,995 --> 00:10:24,164 because he had told Tupac, stop hanging with 'em, 227 00:10:24,165 --> 00:10:26,291 because something's gonna happen. 228 00:10:26,292 --> 00:10:29,336 And, um-- And as we fast forward... 229 00:10:29,337 --> 00:10:32,256 - those were the guys... - [both] Something happened. 230 00:10:32,257 --> 00:10:34,925 And instead of-- I don't know what-- 231 00:10:34,926 --> 00:10:37,512 I don't know what was going on with Tupac at the time. 232 00:10:38,471 --> 00:10:40,681 I don't know if it was embarrassment, 233 00:10:40,682 --> 00:10:42,432 or what he felt. 234 00:10:42,433 --> 00:10:45,144 He knew that Biggie told him... 235 00:10:45,145 --> 00:10:46,687 - Yeah. - ...and warned about these guys. 236 00:10:46,688 --> 00:10:49,649 He knew it was these guys, and he blamed Biggie. 237 00:10:52,193 --> 00:10:55,696 Which is why Biggie never fueled the fla-- flame 238 00:10:55,697 --> 00:10:57,615 to retaliate and make songs. 239 00:10:58,491 --> 00:11:02,244 And, um, but he did make Who Shot Ya. 240 00:11:02,245 --> 00:11:05,164 - Mm-hmm. - Which, you know, as-- as incredible as it is... 241 00:11:05,165 --> 00:11:08,876 - Yeah. - ...I'm sure that added flame to fire. 242 00:11:08,877 --> 00:11:11,003 - Yeah. - So, instead of saying, 243 00:11:11,004 --> 00:11:12,671 "This guy warned me about these guys," 244 00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:16,008 he turned it into a thing like, "This supposed to be your city. 245 00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:18,302 How this could happen to me in your city?" 246 00:11:18,303 --> 00:11:20,554 And B.I.G. is a great rapper and, you know, 247 00:11:20,555 --> 00:11:22,848 he-- he's a good guy, but he-- he didn't-- 248 00:11:22,849 --> 00:11:25,267 he was the king of New York, musically. 249 00:11:25,268 --> 00:11:28,312 - Yes. - We know no one controls New York City. 250 00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:30,814 It's too many bad guys. Everybody's tough. 251 00:11:30,815 --> 00:11:32,733 And the tougher you are, the more you be-- the target 252 00:11:32,734 --> 00:11:34,443 to make another guy say, "I'm gonna try him 253 00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:35,903 because I wanna be the next guy." 254 00:11:35,904 --> 00:11:37,654 There's no way Biggie can control 255 00:11:37,655 --> 00:11:39,198 these guys that he talking about. 256 00:11:39,199 --> 00:11:40,574 - Yeah. - And he knows that. 257 00:11:40,575 --> 00:11:42,868 But that was the-- that was the way he painted it, 258 00:11:42,869 --> 00:11:44,495 that Biggie didn't tell him. 259 00:11:45,830 --> 00:11:48,165 And then from there, it just went. 260 00:11:48,166 --> 00:11:49,875 It went. It took on a life of its own, 261 00:11:49,876 --> 00:11:51,835 and then magazines start picking it up... 262 00:11:51,836 --> 00:11:53,712 - I know. - ...and it-- it became this thing 263 00:11:53,713 --> 00:11:56,215 where everybody was involved. 264 00:11:56,216 --> 00:11:59,218 People that had nothing to do with it became involved. 265 00:11:59,219 --> 00:12:01,428 And did you ever feel when you went to the West Coast 266 00:12:01,429 --> 00:12:02,889 any feeling of like... 267 00:12:03,932 --> 00:12:05,933 I didn't like going there for a long time. 268 00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:08,143 - Yeah. - Even after B.I.G. passed, I was like-- 269 00:12:08,144 --> 00:12:10,020 - It's strange that I live there now. - Felt like enemy territory. 270 00:12:10,021 --> 00:12:11,855 - Yeah, it felt like-- - It's amazing that that could happen. 271 00:12:11,856 --> 00:12:14,608 - Yeah. - Considering everyone 272 00:12:14,609 --> 00:12:17,527 - loves this form so much. - Yeah. 273 00:12:17,528 --> 00:12:19,363 - Yeah. - It's an odd disconnect. 274 00:12:19,364 --> 00:12:21,531 And especially in the beginning, it was a-- 275 00:12:21,532 --> 00:12:23,951 and I guess still now, it's just part of it 276 00:12:23,952 --> 00:12:25,369 'cause that's the neighborhoods we come to. 277 00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:27,579 There's a street element in hip-hop. 278 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:30,040 Always this underly-- underlying, 279 00:12:30,041 --> 00:12:32,960 because we're coming out of these neighborhoods fresh, 280 00:12:32,961 --> 00:12:35,712 and it ain't like you-- you just become 281 00:12:35,713 --> 00:12:38,757 someone new tomorrow, right? 282 00:12:38,758 --> 00:12:40,425 You got friends and people that's around. 283 00:12:40,426 --> 00:12:42,261 You was in the street yesterday. 284 00:12:42,262 --> 00:12:44,137 - Mm-hmm. - With your whole full crew 285 00:12:44,138 --> 00:12:46,640 and doing whatever you need to do to protect your block, 286 00:12:46,641 --> 00:12:48,267 and having wars, 287 00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:50,644 - and spinning a block. - Yeah. 288 00:12:50,645 --> 00:12:53,563 - You know what I mean? - So, it's-- it's a attitude 289 00:12:53,564 --> 00:12:56,149 in life that bleeds over 290 00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:57,651 - into the heart-- art world. - Exactly, yeah. 291 00:12:57,652 --> 00:12:59,988 And the leader has to be the one to be like, "Yo... 292 00:13:01,489 --> 00:13:03,740 we doing something else right now. Chill out." 293 00:13:03,741 --> 00:13:05,784 - Yeah. - You know, you always putting out fires. 294 00:13:05,785 --> 00:13:08,245 You know, I spent a lot of those early years-- 295 00:13:08,246 --> 00:13:11,290 'Cause remember, I was-- was like 50 of us 296 00:13:11,291 --> 00:13:13,250 when-- when we first started. 297 00:13:13,251 --> 00:13:16,586 You know, and it was like guarantee there gonna be a fight 298 00:13:16,587 --> 00:13:18,130 - if we went somewhere. - Yeah. 299 00:13:18,131 --> 00:13:20,924 Or, you know, fighting, or bottle, or stabbing. 300 00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:24,928 It was 100% gonna happen, till it was happening so much 301 00:13:24,929 --> 00:13:26,805 like, wait a minute, I don't want this. 302 00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:28,932 I'm going over here. This is business. 303 00:13:28,933 --> 00:13:30,434 - Yeah. - We taking care of business, 304 00:13:30,435 --> 00:13:32,561 we go home and, you know. 305 00:13:32,562 --> 00:13:35,605 There's another aspect to this in addition to the-- 306 00:13:35,606 --> 00:13:37,816 the actual beef. 307 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,776 There's a perception from the outside 308 00:13:39,777 --> 00:13:41,778 which is completely misunderstood. 309 00:13:41,779 --> 00:13:44,614 Run-DMC played at the Long Beach Arena 310 00:13:44,615 --> 00:13:46,533 - and there was a gang fight. - Mm-hmm. 311 00:13:46,534 --> 00:13:48,703 And somebody got shot at the-- at the arena. 312 00:13:49,704 --> 00:13:51,705 And I remember talking to someone in the music business 313 00:13:51,706 --> 00:13:53,791 after that happened who said... 314 00:13:54,792 --> 00:13:59,629 "Why did Run-DMC, uh, provoke that riot 315 00:13:59,630 --> 00:14:00,965 at the-- at their show?" 316 00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:03,800 Like, what are you talking about? 317 00:14:03,801 --> 00:14:05,552 - Yeah, right, yeah. - That-- that has nothing to do 318 00:14:05,553 --> 00:14:06,803 - with what happened. - Exactly. Yeah. 319 00:14:06,804 --> 00:14:08,305 It's just like a misunderstanding 320 00:14:08,306 --> 00:14:09,723 - from the outside. - Yeah, right. 321 00:14:09,724 --> 00:14:11,141 Nothing to do with the show, 322 00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:12,601 nothing to do with the music... 323 00:14:12,602 --> 00:14:14,895 - No. - ...being, you know, whatever they was saying 324 00:14:14,896 --> 00:14:16,646 - in them early days. - Yeah. 325 00:14:16,647 --> 00:14:20,067 - Inciting riots, it was just-- - Yeah, inciting a riot, like... 326 00:14:20,068 --> 00:14:22,152 No, I haven't seen you. 327 00:14:22,153 --> 00:14:24,488 You from a different neighborhood, and I see you here 328 00:14:24,489 --> 00:14:26,073 and we got a problem. Let's go. 329 00:14:26,074 --> 00:14:27,491 The lack of understanding. 330 00:14:27,492 --> 00:14:29,576 - You mentioned journalists, like... - Yeah, mm-hmm. 331 00:14:29,577 --> 00:14:34,706 The perception that the spin gets put on it by journalists... 332 00:14:34,707 --> 00:14:36,416 - Mm-hmm. - ...hyping it up, 333 00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:38,168 that's wrong. And then... 334 00:14:38,169 --> 00:14:40,170 - Yeah. - ...it's wrong and amplified. 335 00:14:40,171 --> 00:14:41,755 Right. 336 00:14:41,756 --> 00:14:45,592 It's just like, uh, you know, pouring gasoline on a fire. 337 00:14:45,593 --> 00:14:48,345 And everyone had to take responsibility for that, too. 338 00:14:48,346 --> 00:14:49,846 You gotta know when certain things 339 00:14:49,847 --> 00:14:51,723 is not to be sensationalized. 340 00:14:51,724 --> 00:14:55,060 And, you know, the participants have to take responsibility too, 341 00:14:55,061 --> 00:14:57,521 'cause it's like, the entourages, like, 342 00:14:57,522 --> 00:15:00,065 you know, they wanna prove to Biggie and Pac. 343 00:15:00,066 --> 00:15:01,942 They wanna prove to them. 344 00:15:01,943 --> 00:15:04,027 They wanna earn they stay, you know what I mean? 345 00:15:04,028 --> 00:15:06,029 Yeah, tell me more about the relationship with Biggie. 346 00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:08,240 Just, what was he like? What'd you like about him? 347 00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:11,118 - What'd you guys connect over? - Yeah, well, Biggie was-- 348 00:15:11,119 --> 00:15:14,079 Biggie's, um, anytime I think of B.I.G., 349 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,039 I just think his humor, first thing. 350 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,458 A relatable, everyday guy, 351 00:15:18,459 --> 00:15:21,545 just super funny, hilarious. 352 00:15:21,546 --> 00:15:25,465 Like, we spent 85% of the time just laughing. 353 00:15:25,466 --> 00:15:27,217 - Just laughing, like super-- - Great. 354 00:15:27,218 --> 00:15:29,052 - On the floor crying in tears. - Best. 355 00:15:29,053 --> 00:15:31,888 Laughing, like, in pain. "Yo!" 356 00:15:31,889 --> 00:15:34,099 And obviously, his voice. 357 00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:35,725 His voice is incredible. 358 00:15:35,726 --> 00:15:38,478 Yeah, just like where it came from and just like-- 359 00:15:38,479 --> 00:15:39,896 Yeah, and the way he pronounced words. 360 00:15:39,897 --> 00:15:41,231 - Yeah. - Just so cool. 361 00:15:41,232 --> 00:15:42,691 And he'd almost, like, talk in, 362 00:15:42,692 --> 00:15:43,984 where like, "You know what I'm saying? 363 00:15:43,985 --> 00:15:46,403 Yo, playboy." And it was almost like, went in. 364 00:15:46,404 --> 00:15:47,612 - Like-- like, it-- - Yeah. 365 00:15:47,613 --> 00:15:49,240 Like, his words almost went... 366 00:15:50,491 --> 00:15:52,075 went inward in a strange way. 367 00:15:52,076 --> 00:15:54,411 It was like-- almost like a muffle. 368 00:15:54,412 --> 00:15:57,581 - Mm-hmm. - And we were-- we were like, 369 00:15:57,582 --> 00:16:00,667 in New York City, that was it. 370 00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:04,963 He was big, but on the streets, I was me. 371 00:16:04,964 --> 00:16:07,257 So, we had that whole thing covered. 372 00:16:07,258 --> 00:16:09,801 And I remember we walking to a parking lot one day, 373 00:16:09,802 --> 00:16:12,512 get our cars, we were coming from a studio. 374 00:16:12,513 --> 00:16:13,931 And he was like, um... 375 00:16:15,475 --> 00:16:17,434 "No, we should just move to Atlanta and, like, 376 00:16:17,435 --> 00:16:19,352 "get, like-- like, you know, 377 00:16:19,353 --> 00:16:21,688 two big houses next to each other." 378 00:16:21,689 --> 00:16:25,193 And... and in my mind, I'm like... 379 00:16:26,527 --> 00:16:27,945 - "What?" - [laughing] 380 00:16:28,946 --> 00:16:31,282 We're the hottest guys in New York City. 381 00:16:32,283 --> 00:16:34,576 New York. Like, we've made it. 382 00:16:34,577 --> 00:16:36,995 Like, we've reached the pinnacle of New York. 383 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:39,456 Why we wanna move to Atlanta? 384 00:16:39,457 --> 00:16:41,708 And just think about Atlanta today and the scene today. 385 00:16:41,709 --> 00:16:43,752 I'm like, that was super wise. 386 00:16:43,753 --> 00:16:47,005 It was-- he had all these things, like, outside of music 387 00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:49,550 that he was thinking about and talking about. 388 00:16:50,051 --> 00:16:52,053 [♪ "I Love the Dough" by The Notorious B.I.G. playing] 389 00:17:49,193 --> 00:17:52,196 Don't forget the vinyl. [chuckles] 390 00:17:53,698 --> 00:17:54,699 Shit. 391 00:18:25,396 --> 00:18:28,232 ♪ I love the dough, ay ♪ 392 00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:49,396 ♪ I love the dough more than you know ♪ 393 00:19:49,397 --> 00:19:50,814 ♪ Gonna let it show ♪ 394 00:19:50,815 --> 00:19:52,732 [♪ music stops abruptly] 395 00:19:52,733 --> 00:19:54,984 What do you remember about that night? 396 00:19:54,985 --> 00:19:58,154 Oh, yeah, we finished that one night in Daddy's house. 397 00:19:58,155 --> 00:20:00,657 I remember Puff come and I started doing my verses. 398 00:20:00,658 --> 00:20:03,660 And Puff's like, "What you doing? He trying to kill you." 399 00:20:03,661 --> 00:20:05,328 [chuckles] Puff was trying to, like, 400 00:20:05,329 --> 00:20:07,038 spark the competition between us. 401 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:09,249 - Yeah. - You know, he's like, "He trying to kill you." 402 00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:12,711 - [laughing] - Like, "Y-You-- yo, you better go ahead." 403 00:20:12,712 --> 00:20:14,379 And it was just fun, we just was having fun. 404 00:20:14,380 --> 00:20:16,339 It was just almost like a regular night for us. 405 00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:18,842 We just hanging out and just creating music. 406 00:20:18,843 --> 00:20:21,094 Did you both come to the studio with no lyrics? 407 00:20:21,095 --> 00:20:23,096 - This-- this gets written... - No lyrics. Yeah, this is all done-- 408 00:20:23,097 --> 00:20:24,556 This might-- this happens in one night. 409 00:20:24,557 --> 00:20:26,349 Yeah, that's dead all-- I didn't hear the music 410 00:20:26,350 --> 00:20:28,393 till he just had, like, "I wanna do a song." 411 00:20:28,394 --> 00:20:29,769 And we just-- he played this 412 00:20:29,770 --> 00:20:31,521 and it was like, alright, let's go. 413 00:20:31,522 --> 00:20:34,399 And then, you both, like, writing at the same time? 414 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,818 Yeah, I think I finished my verses first. 415 00:20:36,819 --> 00:20:38,528 - Yeah. - 'Cause that's when Puff was coming in here, 416 00:20:38,529 --> 00:20:40,905 and then B.I.G. was just like, letting the music loop. 417 00:20:40,906 --> 00:20:42,949 And he was just sitting in the back. 418 00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:46,077 This was the first time I saw they-- they had a week thing 419 00:20:46,078 --> 00:20:49,205 called Branson in New York. It was very super popular. 420 00:20:49,206 --> 00:20:52,041 Like, "Yo, me and Branson-- took thing-- things to Branson." 421 00:20:52,042 --> 00:20:55,253 You'll hear it in a lot of Lox raps and Biggie raps. 422 00:20:55,254 --> 00:20:57,213 They used to be the king of Branson. 423 00:20:57,214 --> 00:21:00,425 You go to Branson, you get the weed, he'd give you candy. 424 00:21:00,426 --> 00:21:03,094 They would take a box of Philly blunts 425 00:21:03,095 --> 00:21:05,597 and roll every single one of them. 426 00:21:05,598 --> 00:21:09,058 And it'd just be like a box of blunts just ready to go. 427 00:21:09,059 --> 00:21:10,935 And I remember he was in the back and he was-- 428 00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:13,396 he was so high and he was, like, leaning back. 429 00:21:13,397 --> 00:21:16,775 And I was like, "How high is you trying to get?" 430 00:21:16,776 --> 00:21:17,902 And he says... 431 00:21:19,653 --> 00:21:22,238 Like that. [laughing] 432 00:21:22,239 --> 00:21:24,032 [Rick] Wow. 433 00:21:24,033 --> 00:21:26,242 - Incredible. - Yeah, it was great. 434 00:21:26,243 --> 00:21:28,328 There's Cristal mentioned in this song. 435 00:21:28,329 --> 00:21:31,080 It was almost-- all those little markers that we were trying-- 436 00:21:31,081 --> 00:21:33,625 like hip-hop, like trying to separate yourself. 437 00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:36,503 Like, "I know the new sneakers. I got the new thing. 438 00:21:36,504 --> 00:21:38,296 Oh, y'all rocking platinum jewelry?" 439 00:21:38,297 --> 00:21:40,632 Nowadays, it's more of an adoption. 440 00:21:40,633 --> 00:21:43,426 Like, if someone got something, now everybody wants to get it. 441 00:21:43,427 --> 00:21:46,930 In those days it was like, yeah, we all rock the same uniform, 442 00:21:46,931 --> 00:21:51,392 but if you got the hat, I'm getting the visor. 443 00:21:51,393 --> 00:21:53,728 You know, if y'all are rocking gold, I'm rocking platinum. 444 00:21:53,729 --> 00:21:56,606 - You don't wanna be the same. - It was all about the gift of discovery, 445 00:21:56,607 --> 00:21:58,191 and was trying to elevate. 446 00:21:58,192 --> 00:21:59,984 So, that line was about, okay, 447 00:21:59,985 --> 00:22:02,445 - y'all watching Tyson fight. - Yeah. 448 00:22:02,446 --> 00:22:04,948 - You know, we at the Tyson fight. - I see. 449 00:22:04,949 --> 00:22:06,699 And, you know, you see how cheap those tickets was. 450 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,619 Those tickets now like 20,000. 451 00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:11,037 - Yeah, yeah. - 15,000, whatever. 452 00:22:11,038 --> 00:22:12,956 It was like I'm in the 1,500 seat. 453 00:22:12,957 --> 00:22:14,833 - Yeah, 'cause that's what it was then. - That's what it was. 454 00:22:14,834 --> 00:22:17,043 - Yeah. - I'm in the 1,500 seats watching Tyson. 455 00:22:17,044 --> 00:22:20,672 "Same night, same fight, but one of us cats ain't playing right." 456 00:22:20,673 --> 00:22:23,341 Right, 'cause we all talking about we're players and we on this thing. 457 00:22:23,342 --> 00:22:25,218 - I see. - I'm at the fight. 458 00:22:25,219 --> 00:22:27,387 - I see. - People-- on the surface, it's like, 459 00:22:27,388 --> 00:22:29,681 "Oh, he just talking about flashing and money and thing." 460 00:22:29,682 --> 00:22:33,726 But if you take a second and listen. 461 00:22:33,727 --> 00:22:36,145 Like you were saying, people don't really listen. 462 00:22:36,146 --> 00:22:38,314 If you listen, I always gave you the reason. 463 00:22:38,315 --> 00:22:41,985 And I tell you, people, "Place yourself in the shoes 464 00:22:41,986 --> 00:22:44,696 of two felons and tell me you won't ball every--" 465 00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:46,406 'cause we might not be here tomorrow. 466 00:22:46,407 --> 00:22:48,825 "And tell me you won't ball every chance you get 467 00:22:48,826 --> 00:22:50,618 at any chance you hit." 468 00:22:50,619 --> 00:22:51,996 "Hit" meaning kill. 469 00:22:52,872 --> 00:22:55,540 "We live for the moment. Makes sense, don't it? 470 00:22:55,541 --> 00:22:58,001 Make dollars." And I go back to it. 471 00:22:58,002 --> 00:23:00,169 "Cats pop bottles..." [mumbling indistinctly] 472 00:23:00,170 --> 00:23:02,380 In the middle, there's almost like a commercial break. 473 00:23:02,381 --> 00:23:06,551 I-- I interrupt all the balling and flashy shit to say, 474 00:23:06,552 --> 00:23:10,346 "Now, listen, pockets stay full. 475 00:23:10,347 --> 00:23:12,265 Skip the bull 'cause we matadors." 476 00:23:12,266 --> 00:23:14,058 - It was like, you know, a little rap line. - Skip the bull. 477 00:23:14,059 --> 00:23:15,935 "Skip the bull 'cause we matadors." 478 00:23:15,936 --> 00:23:18,146 "Snatch the P89s--" was a type of gun-- 479 00:23:18,147 --> 00:23:20,356 "that we pack in the drawers and we clap the doors 480 00:23:20,357 --> 00:23:21,774 "of your Acuras. 481 00:23:21,775 --> 00:23:23,860 Make you all dance hold a hammer to yours." 482 00:23:23,861 --> 00:23:25,695 Another little-- you know, hammer to dance. 483 00:23:25,696 --> 00:23:27,697 "Make you all dance, hold a hammer to yours. 484 00:23:27,698 --> 00:23:30,283 "Jig and B.I.G. rock ice, no cracks in floors. 485 00:23:30,284 --> 00:23:33,077 "Everybody got a part to play, back to yours. 486 00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:35,204 "Run up in your crib now, crack your doors. 487 00:23:35,205 --> 00:23:37,624 "Watch the real players live. It's a habit to floss. 488 00:23:37,625 --> 00:23:40,877 "Play the charts like The Beatles, y'all adapt the loss. 489 00:23:40,878 --> 00:23:42,962 "Toast Cristal on behalf of y'all. 490 00:23:42,963 --> 00:23:46,633 "Too bad for y'all, ain't too many as bad as yours truly. 491 00:23:46,634 --> 00:23:48,760 Do we? We laugh at y'all little bast--" 492 00:23:48,761 --> 00:23:52,138 You know, the MC bravado braggadocious type of shit. 493 00:23:52,139 --> 00:23:54,599 So, tell me the story of Cristal because there was a time 494 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,226 - you stopped-- you stopped mentioning Cristal. - Yeah. 495 00:23:57,227 --> 00:23:59,771 So, we had discovered Cristal pretty early. 496 00:23:59,772 --> 00:24:02,482 And I remember drink-- like, literally drinking 497 00:24:02,483 --> 00:24:04,067 Cristal in the club, and people were like, 498 00:24:04,068 --> 00:24:05,653 "What are you drinking? Is that beer?" 499 00:24:06,487 --> 00:24:08,738 Then the whole of hip-hop, 500 00:24:08,739 --> 00:24:12,409 pretty much Cristal became the drink of-- of choice. 501 00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:16,287 They asked the guy-- I forget his position, 502 00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:20,917 if he was like the president, or whatever his position was. 503 00:24:20,918 --> 00:24:23,128 They asked him how did he feel about... 504 00:24:24,254 --> 00:24:27,298 hip-hop's affinity for this luxury brand. 505 00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:29,676 And he said something like, 506 00:24:29,677 --> 00:24:32,012 "I can't stop them from drinking it." 507 00:24:33,973 --> 00:24:35,598 It was-- It was-- 508 00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:37,100 I mean, all he had to do 509 00:24:37,101 --> 00:24:40,103 was just say, "Thank you." 510 00:24:40,104 --> 00:24:42,689 - Of course. - "We welcome anybody who loves our brand." 511 00:24:42,690 --> 00:24:46,150 - Like any-- - You took it from this exclusive brand... 512 00:24:46,151 --> 00:24:47,777 - Mm-hmm. - ...that no one even knew about... 513 00:24:47,778 --> 00:24:49,320 - Right. - ...to making it the hottest drink 514 00:24:49,321 --> 00:24:51,447 - in the hip-hop world. - Yes. He didn't want us-- 515 00:24:51,448 --> 00:24:53,449 almost like we were tainting his brand 516 00:24:53,450 --> 00:24:55,159 by being associated with it. 517 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,786 Like it didn't make it luxury anymore 518 00:24:56,787 --> 00:24:58,287 'cause we were drinking it. 519 00:24:58,288 --> 00:24:59,872 That was the feeling. 520 00:24:59,873 --> 00:25:02,709 - And I was like, "Fuck you." - Yeah. 521 00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:04,836 You know, I had the club. I still have the club. 522 00:25:04,837 --> 00:25:08,298 I had 40/40, took it out of all the clubs... 523 00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:10,800 and just-- and that was it. 524 00:25:10,801 --> 00:25:13,386 And once I made that statement, like, "I'm-- I don't-- 525 00:25:13,387 --> 00:25:17,682 we no longer drink Cristal," um, I was approached by a guy. 526 00:25:17,683 --> 00:25:20,810 He had an idea for this champagne. 527 00:25:20,811 --> 00:25:24,313 That's how Armand was born, Ace of Spade... 528 00:25:24,314 --> 00:25:26,357 - Yeah. - ...which is what I call it, Ace of Spades. 529 00:25:26,358 --> 00:25:28,651 It was born there. There was no liquid in it. 530 00:25:28,652 --> 00:25:30,820 And it was-- and nothing, it was just this idea 531 00:25:30,821 --> 00:25:33,072 and this beautiful gold bottle. 532 00:25:33,073 --> 00:25:35,158 And we built this brand together. 533 00:25:35,159 --> 00:25:36,993 - Amazing, the timing. - Yeah. 534 00:25:36,994 --> 00:25:38,494 Yeah. 535 00:25:38,495 --> 00:25:40,079 Have you had those experiences before 536 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,706 where just, like, the things line up 537 00:25:41,707 --> 00:25:43,833 - at the right time? - All the time. Yeah, all the time. 538 00:25:43,834 --> 00:25:46,044 It's really spooky. All the time, it happens. 539 00:25:46,045 --> 00:25:48,337 I'm like, of course. [chuckles] 540 00:25:48,338 --> 00:25:50,131 It got to-- it's beyond that point. 541 00:25:50,132 --> 00:25:52,717 It's-- it's beyond the point of, "Wow, that really happened," 542 00:25:52,718 --> 00:25:54,844 - to, "Of course this happened," you know. - Yeah. 543 00:25:54,845 --> 00:25:58,014 It seems like we could-- if we're open to it, it comes. 544 00:25:58,015 --> 00:25:59,348 - That's right. - It comes. 545 00:25:59,349 --> 00:26:00,350 Yeah. 546 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,186 And if you think it's not possible, 547 00:26:03,187 --> 00:26:04,395 then it's not possible. 548 00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:06,189 - That's right. Yeah. - Do you know, if you-- 549 00:26:06,190 --> 00:26:07,356 Once you realize it's possible... 550 00:26:07,357 --> 00:26:09,525 - That's right. - ...and you're open to it, 551 00:26:09,526 --> 00:26:10,985 - it's everywhere. - Like you say, 552 00:26:10,986 --> 00:26:12,403 - you put your attention out there. - Yeah. 553 00:26:12,404 --> 00:26:14,113 When you say it's not gonna happen, you shut down 554 00:26:14,114 --> 00:26:16,282 - the possibility of it happening for yourself. - Yeah. 555 00:26:16,283 --> 00:26:19,035 So, even when you say things like, you know, 556 00:26:19,036 --> 00:26:21,621 the universe doesn't respond to negative, 557 00:26:21,622 --> 00:26:23,498 uh, what's the word I'm looking for, like, energy, 558 00:26:23,499 --> 00:26:27,585 like sparks of-- so if you say, "I don't wanna be like my dad. 559 00:26:27,586 --> 00:26:30,296 I'm not gonna be like my dad. I'm not gonna be like my dad." 560 00:26:30,297 --> 00:26:32,715 - You end up being exactly like your dad. - Yeah. 561 00:26:32,716 --> 00:26:35,093 - Because the universe-- - It doesn't hear the "no." 562 00:26:35,094 --> 00:26:36,427 - The negative. - Yeah. 563 00:26:36,428 --> 00:26:39,305 As opposed to saying, "I wanna be like this." 564 00:26:39,306 --> 00:26:41,724 Or, "I wanna be in my child's life, 565 00:26:41,725 --> 00:26:43,309 "and I wanna be like this, 566 00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:45,061 and I wanna be a father who's attentive." 567 00:26:45,062 --> 00:26:46,271 Like, instead of saying... 568 00:26:47,481 --> 00:26:49,607 setting your attentions to what you want to do, 569 00:26:49,608 --> 00:26:51,275 you're saying what you don't want. 570 00:26:51,276 --> 00:26:53,277 But-- and the universe only hears 571 00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:54,612 - the negative. - When did you learn this? 572 00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:55,614 [Jay-Z] Hm. 573 00:26:57,241 --> 00:26:58,866 [sucking teeth] 574 00:26:58,867 --> 00:27:02,412 I want to say around Black Album -ish, round... 575 00:27:03,831 --> 00:27:06,415 'cause I was dealing with it a lot then. 576 00:27:06,416 --> 00:27:08,960 I met my dad around Black Album. 577 00:27:08,961 --> 00:27:10,962 It actually opened up a space for me 578 00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:13,673 to, like, mature into the next. 579 00:27:13,674 --> 00:27:15,842 And I obviously made some mistakes after that, 580 00:27:15,843 --> 00:27:20,139 but it definitely opened up the idea of... of... 581 00:27:21,431 --> 00:27:24,434 not running away from the feeling of... 582 00:27:25,477 --> 00:27:29,147 rejection, or abandonment, and things like that, you know. 583 00:27:29,148 --> 00:27:31,649 I would always, like, if I get into, like, 584 00:27:31,650 --> 00:27:33,609 any sort of relationship, 585 00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:35,945 never wanna, like, fully be vulnerable 586 00:27:35,946 --> 00:27:38,781 because I don't-- I ain't never want to feel that feeling 587 00:27:38,782 --> 00:27:40,784 that I've had since a kid. 588 00:27:41,618 --> 00:27:43,119 But, you know, and as I've grown, 589 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,788 I've had so much more understanding of my dad 590 00:27:45,789 --> 00:27:49,209 and who he was, and so much, um... 591 00:27:50,878 --> 00:27:52,171 so much... 592 00:27:54,131 --> 00:27:57,133 like, just relating to his pain and his struggle, 593 00:27:57,134 --> 00:27:59,010 and, like, see him as a human being 594 00:27:59,011 --> 00:28:00,636 - and not a dad and, like... - Yeah. Yeah. 595 00:28:00,637 --> 00:28:02,138 ...so much understanding of, 596 00:28:02,139 --> 00:28:05,308 "Wow, that's what was going on for you." 597 00:28:05,309 --> 00:28:07,685 You know, seeing it through your lens, 598 00:28:07,686 --> 00:28:11,063 you know, it's like, this is a bad dad who left. Left. 599 00:28:11,064 --> 00:28:14,400 How could you leave your kids and bah, bah, bah, bah. 600 00:28:14,401 --> 00:28:18,446 But seeing it through his lens, it's way different. 601 00:28:18,447 --> 00:28:20,240 He had a relationship with his-- with my mom. 602 00:28:21,366 --> 00:28:23,826 You know, that-- that precedes us. 603 00:28:23,827 --> 00:28:25,244 - That came before us. - Yeah. 604 00:28:25,245 --> 00:28:26,746 So, that relationship was complicated. 605 00:28:26,747 --> 00:28:28,539 And then, like, his life 606 00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:30,333 and his personal life when he was gone. 607 00:28:30,334 --> 00:28:33,502 Like for instance, you know, it was a couple times 608 00:28:33,503 --> 00:28:36,923 he was supposed to pick me up, and he just never showed up. 609 00:28:36,924 --> 00:28:39,217 So, imagine that hurt, right? And that feeling 610 00:28:39,218 --> 00:28:41,969 of just, like, abandonment, and, like... 611 00:28:41,970 --> 00:28:43,679 - He doesn't care. That's-- - He doesn't care. 612 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,056 That's the story you tell yourself. 613 00:28:45,057 --> 00:28:47,016 So, you tell yourself that story your whole life, 614 00:28:47,017 --> 00:28:48,684 you build this kind of resentment. 615 00:28:48,685 --> 00:28:50,853 - Yeah. - And the truth about it 616 00:28:50,854 --> 00:28:54,774 was my dad took a lot of pride in his appearance. 617 00:28:54,775 --> 00:28:58,110 Had the big Afro, always kept his clothes clean. 618 00:28:58,111 --> 00:29:00,696 My mom would take credit for that. She said, "I cleaned him up." 619 00:29:00,697 --> 00:29:02,198 [both laughing] 620 00:29:02,199 --> 00:29:05,826 "I put him together." And he was just so together. 621 00:29:05,827 --> 00:29:09,206 And he started using drugs at some point. 622 00:29:10,123 --> 00:29:12,959 So, his appearance wasn't what it was. 623 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,795 - So it wasn't more of-- - It was shame? 624 00:29:15,796 --> 00:29:17,713 - Shame. - Yeah, didn't want to be seen. 625 00:29:17,714 --> 00:29:19,590 "I can't be seen like this." 626 00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:22,051 How I imagine him was like, looking at himself in the mirror 627 00:29:22,052 --> 00:29:23,594 - and just like... - Yeah. By showing up, 628 00:29:23,595 --> 00:29:25,471 - he would disappoint you. - Exactly. 629 00:29:25,472 --> 00:29:26,889 [Rick] Yeah. 630 00:29:26,890 --> 00:29:28,058 That's deep. 631 00:29:29,726 --> 00:29:31,435 You know, I learned that as well in that time, 632 00:29:31,436 --> 00:29:34,064 like, always try to look through someone else's lens. 633 00:29:35,107 --> 00:29:36,649 Everyone sees things different. 634 00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:40,111 Like, everyone's gonna tell a story of today differently 635 00:29:40,112 --> 00:29:42,321 because it's gonna be through their lens and through-- 636 00:29:42,322 --> 00:29:44,490 - Absolutely. - Through their information, and how they grew up, 637 00:29:44,491 --> 00:29:46,450 and how they perceive things. 638 00:29:46,451 --> 00:29:49,412 You know, we all have a different camera lens. 639 00:29:49,413 --> 00:29:51,789 You know, I hear stories of someplace 640 00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:55,334 that I was clearly with-- with the same people, 641 00:29:55,335 --> 00:29:57,253 and I was like, that's not what happened. 642 00:29:57,254 --> 00:30:00,089 - Yeah. - They just telling a whole different story. 643 00:30:00,090 --> 00:30:03,759 I would say before, "You're lying. 644 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,804 - Why are you lying? That's not what happened." - Yeah, just... 645 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:10,266 And it's like, you know, sometimes people lie. 646 00:30:10,267 --> 00:30:13,603 But sometimes, people have told themselves that story. 647 00:30:14,604 --> 00:30:16,522 I'm sure I've done it before. 648 00:30:16,523 --> 00:30:20,443 You've told yourself that story so much that you believe it now. 649 00:30:20,444 --> 00:30:22,321 And this is the way you perceived it. 650 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,949 And each time, it gets more fantastic than the last time. 651 00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:28,993 Whenever we experience something, 652 00:30:28,994 --> 00:30:30,494 the first thing we do 653 00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:32,330 - is try to make sense of it. - Mm-hmm. 654 00:30:32,331 --> 00:30:33,998 - Like, nothing really makes sense. - Right. 655 00:30:33,999 --> 00:30:38,127 So, we-- we have this instantaneous reaction to something. 656 00:30:38,128 --> 00:30:40,046 - Mm-hmm. - It gets implanted in us, 657 00:30:40,047 --> 00:30:41,839 and forevermore that's how we remember it. 658 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,050 - Yeah. - But we could-- could have been wrong 659 00:30:44,051 --> 00:30:45,551 - with that first interpretation. - Exactly. 660 00:30:45,552 --> 00:30:46,844 We don't know. 661 00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:48,095 We never know. 662 00:30:48,096 --> 00:30:50,348 No matter how hurt you are in a moment 663 00:30:50,349 --> 00:30:54,352 to really think what was going through that person's mind, 664 00:30:54,353 --> 00:30:56,145 especially if it's someone you love, to like, 665 00:30:56,146 --> 00:30:59,732 really think about, like, what they was going through. 666 00:30:59,733 --> 00:31:01,692 Like, what was he going-- 'cause when I got 667 00:31:01,693 --> 00:31:03,486 all that understanding of, you know, 668 00:31:03,487 --> 00:31:06,155 and I-- I know his little brother got killed, 669 00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:07,823 his brother got stabbed. 670 00:31:07,824 --> 00:31:09,326 I was maybe nine. 671 00:31:10,827 --> 00:31:12,370 And this happened right after. 672 00:31:12,371 --> 00:31:14,998 So, he was depressed. 673 00:31:16,083 --> 00:31:17,750 Yeah, of course, he's on drugs. 674 00:31:17,751 --> 00:31:19,668 I used to look down on that type of thing. 675 00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:21,379 Was he close with his little brother? 676 00:31:21,380 --> 00:31:23,506 Yeah, and, you know, obviously, 677 00:31:23,507 --> 00:31:25,591 his charge is protect his little brother. 678 00:31:25,592 --> 00:31:29,513 And I look-- by the way, I look more like his little brother than him. 679 00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:32,848 Like my nephews, they look more like me than their dad. 680 00:31:32,849 --> 00:31:34,350 Wow. 681 00:31:34,351 --> 00:31:36,560 I couldn't go to the funeral, I was still too young. 682 00:31:36,561 --> 00:31:38,646 - Yeah. - They ain't take me to-- and I loved him so much. 683 00:31:38,647 --> 00:31:40,439 I think they didn't want me to see him like that, 684 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,690 'cause my sisters went. 685 00:31:41,691 --> 00:31:43,235 - She only one year older than me. - Yeah. 686 00:31:44,611 --> 00:31:48,280 It was my first moment of, like, tragic loss. 687 00:31:48,281 --> 00:31:49,740 So, it was always there. 688 00:31:49,741 --> 00:31:51,492 I've talked about Uncle Ray so many times. 689 00:31:51,493 --> 00:31:54,537 - Yeah. - It's there. Uncle Butchie, I don't speak about much, 690 00:31:54,538 --> 00:31:56,790 but he was-- he was in the background. 691 00:31:57,874 --> 00:32:00,084 He was like-- you know, I remember-- 692 00:32:00,085 --> 00:32:02,044 like, the reason I have dreads and all that, 693 00:32:02,045 --> 00:32:03,629 I can dr-- draw back to him. 694 00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:04,965 He had dreads and... 695 00:32:06,383 --> 00:32:08,801 back when we used to run from him for having dreads. 696 00:32:08,802 --> 00:32:10,386 - Wow. Wow. - And a hat. Like, by the way, 697 00:32:10,387 --> 00:32:12,972 I-- I'm thinking of this hat and these dreads that I have. 698 00:32:12,973 --> 00:32:15,224 They used to call him weird. He didn't eat meat. 699 00:32:15,225 --> 00:32:16,851 - Yeah. - But this is way back then. 700 00:32:16,852 --> 00:32:19,103 I remember he cut himself, his blood was so dark, 701 00:32:19,104 --> 00:32:21,897 and I was like, "What's wrong with him?" 702 00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:23,649 But he was so healthy. 703 00:32:23,650 --> 00:32:25,067 When he would come around, 704 00:32:25,068 --> 00:32:27,111 because we all had our hair cut low... 705 00:32:27,112 --> 00:32:30,489 - Mm-hmm. - ...it was not-- this is after Afro age. 706 00:32:30,490 --> 00:32:32,825 - Yeah. - He would come with dreads and we would be embarrassed. 707 00:32:32,826 --> 00:32:35,077 - Yeah. - 'Cause he was just so different. 708 00:32:35,078 --> 00:32:37,830 Like, all these things make sense to me now. 709 00:32:37,831 --> 00:32:40,291 You know, at that time it was like, "What's wrong with Butchie?" 710 00:32:40,292 --> 00:32:42,751 He was just-- Butchie was super into, like, 711 00:32:42,752 --> 00:32:45,921 he was super spiritual, super into his health. 712 00:32:45,922 --> 00:32:47,923 He was Rick Rubin before Rick Rubin. 713 00:32:47,924 --> 00:32:50,676 - [both laughing] - But I had no access 714 00:32:50,677 --> 00:32:52,470 - to you at that time. - Yeah. 715 00:32:52,471 --> 00:32:55,097 There was no access to anyone 716 00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:57,808 that wasn't speaking of anything but what was happening 717 00:32:57,809 --> 00:32:59,769 in the hood right then and now. 718 00:33:00,604 --> 00:33:03,939 I asked you about when you had that relationship 719 00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:05,608 - to projecting negativity. - Mm. 720 00:33:05,609 --> 00:33:07,109 We were in Brooklyn together. 721 00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:08,986 We were filming the 99 Problems video, 722 00:33:08,987 --> 00:33:11,572 and you won't remember this, but we were walking somewhere. 723 00:33:11,573 --> 00:33:13,449 We went to a record store, the record store 724 00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:15,451 - I guess you used to go to when you were growing up. - We filmed there. 725 00:33:15,452 --> 00:33:17,328 Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. Downtown Brooklyn. 726 00:33:17,329 --> 00:33:19,288 - Uh-huh, yeah. - And we were walking, 727 00:33:19,289 --> 00:33:22,041 and a little girl came up to you 728 00:33:22,042 --> 00:33:25,294 and said, "Can't I get an autograph?" 729 00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:27,004 - Mm. - And you said, 730 00:33:27,005 --> 00:33:30,174 "If you say 'can't,' you can't." 731 00:33:30,175 --> 00:33:31,550 [Jay-Z] Mm-hmm. 732 00:33:31,551 --> 00:33:34,136 "If you ask me, 'Can I get an autograph?'"... 733 00:33:34,137 --> 00:33:35,471 Yeah. 734 00:33:35,472 --> 00:33:37,223 "...I'll give you an autograph." 735 00:33:37,224 --> 00:33:38,975 - And I loved it. - Yeah, that's great. 736 00:33:39,684 --> 00:33:41,018 Thank you for that, I forgot about that. 737 00:33:41,019 --> 00:33:42,478 - That's great. - My pleasure. 738 00:33:42,479 --> 00:33:44,146 - Yeah. - I have another-- another personal story. 739 00:33:44,147 --> 00:33:45,314 I don't know if you remember this, 740 00:33:45,315 --> 00:33:46,690 but the very first time-- 741 00:33:46,691 --> 00:33:48,526 we didn't meet, but the very first time 742 00:33:48,527 --> 00:33:51,820 I was in your presence was on an airplane. 743 00:33:51,821 --> 00:33:54,490 There was a flight from Los Angeles to New York. 744 00:33:54,491 --> 00:33:57,159 I was flying in first class on American Airlines, 745 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,162 and I was big at the time, and I had back issues. 746 00:34:00,163 --> 00:34:02,081 - Mm-hmm. - I sat in my seat, 747 00:34:02,082 --> 00:34:04,083 and I went to recline, and it wouldn't recline. 748 00:34:04,084 --> 00:34:06,752 And I said to the stewardess, "There's a problem with my seat." 749 00:34:06,753 --> 00:34:08,754 And she's like, "Sorry, we're sold out. Nothing we can do." 750 00:34:08,755 --> 00:34:11,006 Like, okay. 751 00:34:11,007 --> 00:34:13,717 And then, I hear from behind me, "Excuse me." 752 00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:15,553 You-- I hear, "Excuse me. 753 00:34:15,554 --> 00:34:17,013 I'm happy to switch seats with him." 754 00:34:17,847 --> 00:34:20,516 And the person behind me switched his seats with me, 755 00:34:20,517 --> 00:34:21,600 and that was you. 756 00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:24,103 Wow. You gave me chills just now. 757 00:34:24,104 --> 00:34:25,938 - Wow, I didn't even remember that. - And I didn't know it was-- 758 00:34:25,939 --> 00:34:28,107 - I didn't know who you were. - Right, uh-huh. 759 00:34:28,108 --> 00:34:30,859 But then, we were both flying to New York, 760 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:34,196 and you were going to-- to do The Chris Rock Show. 761 00:34:34,197 --> 00:34:36,865 - Mm-hmm. - And I-- I went there to see Chris Rock. 762 00:34:36,866 --> 00:34:38,784 - Right. Yeah. - 'Cause we've always been friends. 763 00:34:38,785 --> 00:34:40,536 And I'm standing on the side of the stage 764 00:34:40,537 --> 00:34:42,246 and you came out to do your song. 765 00:34:42,247 --> 00:34:44,081 I was like, "That's the guy 766 00:34:44,082 --> 00:34:45,708 from the airplane who switched seats with me." 767 00:34:45,709 --> 00:34:47,084 - Wow. - That was the first time 768 00:34:47,085 --> 00:34:48,377 - I knew that it was you. - Yeah. Right. 769 00:34:48,378 --> 00:34:49,753 I-- I would have said something on the plane 770 00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:51,380 - had I known, but... - Yeah. Wow. 771 00:34:51,381 --> 00:34:53,924 So, that's a good-- uh, in terms of karma. 772 00:34:53,925 --> 00:34:54,926 [Jay-Z] Uh-huh. 773 00:34:56,469 --> 00:34:59,138 I can attest to the fact that I know that you believe in karma 774 00:34:59,139 --> 00:35:01,140 - 'cause I've seen you do good deeds out in the world... - Right. 775 00:35:01,141 --> 00:35:03,392 - ...before I even knew who you were. - Wow, thank you for that, man. 776 00:35:03,393 --> 00:35:04,727 - Thank you for that. - Amazing, no? 777 00:35:04,728 --> 00:35:06,312 Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. 778 00:35:06,313 --> 00:35:07,439 - Incredible. - Yeah. 779 00:35:08,565 --> 00:35:10,399 Let's listen to another song. 780 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,276 - How 'bout-- - And I had to have known you, 781 00:35:12,277 --> 00:35:13,736 'cause I've known you my whole life. 782 00:35:13,737 --> 00:35:16,740 - [laughing] - [♪ "Big Pimpin'" playing] 783 00:35:18,283 --> 00:35:19,951 ♪ It's big pimpin', baby ♪ 784 00:35:22,662 --> 00:35:25,081 ♪ It's big pimpin, spending Gs ♪ 785 00:35:26,666 --> 00:35:29,293 ♪ Yeah, we doing big pimpin' ♪ 786 00:35:29,294 --> 00:35:31,754 ♪ We spending cheese, check 'em out now ♪ 787 00:35:31,755 --> 00:35:35,090 ♪ Big pimpin' on B-L-A-Ds, we doin' ♪ 788 00:35:35,091 --> 00:35:37,509 ♪ Big pimpin' up in NYC ♪ 789 00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:40,971 ♪ It's just that Jigga Man, Pimp C and B-U-N B ♪ 790 00:35:40,972 --> 00:35:44,600 ♪ Yo, yo, yo, big pimpin' spendin' cheese ♪ 791 00:35:44,601 --> 00:35:47,978 ♪ We doin' big pimpin' on B-L-A-Ds ♪ 792 00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:51,398 ♪ We doin' big pimpin' up in NYC ♪ 793 00:35:51,399 --> 00:35:54,902 ♪ It's just that Jigga Man, Pimp C and B-U-N B ♪ 794 00:35:54,903 --> 00:35:57,571 ♪ Nigga, it's the big Southern rap impresario ♪ 795 00:35:57,572 --> 00:35:59,281 ♪ Comin' straight up out the black barrio ♪ 796 00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:00,991 ♪ Makes a mil up off a sorry ho ♪ 797 00:36:00,992 --> 00:36:02,618 ♪ Then sit back and peep my sce-nahr-io ♪ 798 00:36:02,619 --> 00:36:04,536 ♪ Oops, my bad, that's "My scenario" ♪ 799 00:36:04,537 --> 00:36:06,205 ♪ No, I can't fuck a scary ho ♪ 800 00:36:06,206 --> 00:36:07,956 ♪ Now every time, every place, everywhere we go ♪ 801 00:36:07,957 --> 00:36:09,667 ♪ Hoes start pointin', they say, "There he go!" ♪ 802 00:36:09,668 --> 00:36:11,502 ♪ Now, these motherfuckers know we carry mo' heat ♪ 803 00:36:11,503 --> 00:36:13,587 ♪ Than a little bit, we don't pull it out over little shit ♪ 804 00:36:13,588 --> 00:36:16,173 ♪ And if you catch a lick when I spit, then it won't be a little hit ♪ 805 00:36:16,174 --> 00:36:17,883 ♪ Go read a book, you illiterate son of a bitch ♪ 806 00:36:17,884 --> 00:36:19,510 ♪ And step up your vocab ♪ 807 00:36:19,511 --> 00:36:21,303 ♪ Don't be surprised if your ho's there out with me ♪ 808 00:36:21,304 --> 00:36:23,138 ♪ And you see us comin' down on yo' slab ♪ 809 00:36:23,139 --> 00:36:24,807 ♪ Livin' ghetto-fabulous, so mad ♪ 810 00:36:24,808 --> 00:36:26,183 ♪ You just can't take it ♪ 811 00:36:26,184 --> 00:36:28,143 ♪ But nigga, if you hate now then you wait ♪ 812 00:36:28,144 --> 00:36:30,938 ♪ While I get your bitch butt-naked, just break it ♪ 813 00:36:30,939 --> 00:36:33,399 ♪ You gotta pay like you weigh wet with two pairs of clothes on ♪ 814 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,317 ♪ Now get your ass to the back as I fly to the track ♪ 815 00:36:35,318 --> 00:36:37,152 ♪ Timbaland, let me spit my prose on ♪ 816 00:36:37,153 --> 00:36:38,821 ♪ Posted up in the pro-zone, that's the track ♪ 817 00:36:38,822 --> 00:36:40,072 ♪ That we breakin' these hoes on ♪ 818 00:36:40,073 --> 00:36:41,490 ♪ Ain't the track that we flows on ♪ 819 00:36:41,491 --> 00:36:42,825 ♪ But when shit get hot, then the Glock ♪ 820 00:36:42,826 --> 00:36:44,160 ♪ Start poppin' like ozone... ♪